Not Just A Girl: Must Love Dogs

You can listen to the ninth episode with Melanie Milne here. Or you can find this interview on YouTube with English subtitles/closed captions here.

NOT JUST A GIRL: Tattoo Podcast

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Season 1, Episode 9: Must Love Dogs

Eddy: Hello friends and welcome to Not Just A Girl, your friendly, feminist tattoo podcast. I'm Eddy, and I'm back to share with you the experience of artists whose practice is having a positive impact on tattooing. On the ninth episode, we'll be talking about organizing the Not Just A Girl charity flash days, as well as the difference between street shops and private studios and how that might change moving forward.

Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are the traditional custodians of this land that was stolen and never ceded. I am honored and grateful to be on the ancestral land of the Awabakal people. And I pay my respect to their Elders past and present and extend my recognition to their descendants.

I am so excited to be chatting to the amazing Melanie Milne today. Mel works at Hot Copper in Melbourne and is known for her colorful and fun traditional tattoos. Mel also happens to be one of the founders of Not Just A Girl, um, from the first flash day in 2017. Um, and it wouldn't have happened without her. She's amazing. Um, thank you so much, Mel, for chatting to me today. It's so awesome to have you a part of the podcast.

Melanie: Hey Ed, How are ya?

Eddy: I'm good. How are you?

Melanie: I'm good, I wish we were in person?

Eddy: It would be so much better. I miss like real life conversations.

Melanie: I know.

Eddy: Um, yeah. What have you, what have you been doing in lockdown and are you missing tattooing?

Melanie: I was really missing tattooing for probably the first couple of weeks. And then I just went into my slump and lost all motivation. In the beginning I was awesome. I was like writing myself to do list for the day and getting up, doing like 10 things a day, because I didn't know how long it would last. So I wanted to make the most of all the free time that I had. And I was like, In a big, like creative burst. It was Awesome. And then after about two weeks, it was like, this is shit and lets watch TV a whole lot. Um, but I have finished painting my house that we just moved into and that's about as much as I can claim that I've gotten through.

Eddy: Painting a house is pretty huge accomplishment.

Melanie: It started out real good. And then I lost heaps of steam for about eight weeks. I smashed the rest out last week so it's done now, thank fuck.

Eddy: That's awesome. I saw you were painting like those awesome little hail Satan crosses.

Melanie: Oh, yeah. So, um, Smith and Daughters, for the restaurant in Melbourne, um, that's it's exhibition. Um, but they have a big wall and it's called the wall and they've used, uh, just tattoo shops and all of the people who work in them to create just whatever they want they're displayed on the wall for I think it was two months and people could come in and... Um, so we had our turn at Hot Copper and everyone just did a bunch of whatever. Um, but they supplied us with these, these wooden crosses to paint, whatever we wanted on them. And then, and mine sold straight away when I was painting it and doing progress shots, I was getting a lot of people hitting me up, um, about buying it and I thought, Oh, you know, maybe this would be a good way to kind of get a quick buck, while we're not working.

Eddy: Yeah

Melanie: And it sold straight like away which is a shock, I made seven um.

Eddy: Awesome.

Melanie: Yeah. It was heaps of fun. I've had heaps of people asking me for them again, but once you've painted seven. Well, I don't really want to paint them anymore. And they were actually really fiddly annoying because it's painting on wood, so, I think I'll just do something different next time. But I had a great time.

Eddy: Awesome. Yeah. They, um, yeah, they looked amazing. I loved how they had that real like seventies, flower child kind of feel, which is very Mel.

Melanie: Definitely.

Eddy: I bet Murph's been loving having you home.

Melanie: It has. I think that she's going to be a bit freaked out when we get back to work. Um, she's actually down here on the floor. You can come see her. It's been really good cause my boyfriend's been working from home as well. So she sits in here while he's doing his Zoom meetings for work and yeah, but we've now gotten Neil as well our new puppy.

Eddy: Awwww. What kind of puppy is he?

Melanie: He is an American bull dog cross Staffy.

Eddy: Oh my god, angel.

Melanie: Someone had adopted him, but they couldn't keep him because their little boy was allergic. So we got him a week after they got him and, uh, he's been awesome. He's in his pen having a nap cause he's a...absolute chaos.

Eddy: Has, is Murph loving him?

Melanie: She fucking hated his guts for like the first week, Murph doesn't like other dogs very much. She just ignores them. Doesn't play with them. And then we were a bit worried that she would just be like insanely annoyed by him. And then one day she just snapped and started wrestling with him and we were like, Oh my God, what is happening? I almost cried because I've never, ever seen her play with another dog. They wrestled for hours. It's amazing. It's actually really annoying now. It's not cute anymore at all.

Eddy: Started out that way with my cats, when they used to like the two youngest ones would wrestle, I was like, Oh my God, this is so cute. But then they're like, you know, a claw will get stuck under an eyelid and it's just like, Oh God.

Melanie: They move around the house. So they’ll be like on the mat. And then they'll be in the kitchen and then they get up on the lounge next to you. And you're like trying to like drink your coffee in your like watching TV and there's this like dog cyclone next to you....yeah, just being a dog mom while I'm on iso.

Eddy: That's perfect. All the dogs in the world are having the best time.

Melanie: The best time. Yep. We're lucky though at Hot Copper because we've got a little balcony for the dogs so we can take them into work.

Eddy: That's awesome.

Melanie: They'll be good.

Eddy: Have you been loving being in Melbourne? Cause you were originally working in street shops in Sydney and then you've moved to a private studio in Melbourne. That's such a huge change.

Melanie: It was a massive change. It was, um, it was actually like a bit of a shock. So I'd left the shop that I was at, um, LDF. I was there for five years in Sydney, in Newtown. Um, and I loved LDF it was great, but I just, it was time for a change. Um, and so I decided to just travel around and go to different shops and I spent. My intention was to do it for about six months and then kind of figure out where I wanted to be. And so I just left and went up to Westside and worked there, which was amazing to work with Matt Cunnington who's one of my favorite tattooers in the whole world.

Eddy: He's so incredible.

Melanie: Yeah, he's the best. Um, so to work with him for a month was amazing. Um, and I took Murph with me and she came to work and we had such a good time. And after that I came back to Sydney for about a week just to pop in and see everyone. And then I headed down to Melbourne to work at Hot Copper with Clare and I never ever saw myself living in Melbourne cause I fucking hate being cold. It's horrible.

And after I left that one month guest spot at Westside. I was like, I could see myself living in Brisbane, like I've got a bunch of mates there. It's nice and sunny. It's just, it's big country town, good old Brisbane. Um, and so I thought, you know, I could probably see myself here, um, but I'll go to Melbourne for a month see how I like it. And I went down there and I worked with Clare and Clare's been kind of bugging me for a while to move to Melbourne. "When are you going to move to Melbourne?" No way. It's too cold, no beach, it's shit. Um, and then I think on the third week of my guest spot I actually met my boyfriend and we went out on a date and then that was kind of it I had to move to Melbourne. So here I am.

Eddy: It's the cutest little love story ever. I've, like that whole love at first sight thing.

Melanie: Oh my god, he's the best. Yeah so he got me, now I'm here. No, but I'm actually loving it. I always saw myself as a street shop tattooer and I loved that environment and I, I do miss it definitely. But Hot Copper is one of the most amazing places to work in the world. Clare is just an incredible boss. She's like just the absolute right attitude. You know, she's not about us all being moneymakers at all, because that tends to be the case when you do work in a street shop. Um, you know, they just want you churning out work, which is fine, I liked that I liked being busy. Um, but it it's also been nice to have been kind of forced back a bit from that, because I don't have the clientele here that I had in Sydney and there isn't people just walking in off the street. So I do. Kind of, I'm forced to just take my time a bit more.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: Like with everything. You know I've got more time to draw. I've got more times paint. I've got more time to tattoo, um, rather than just going alright, cool, what's next? It's been good. And I am really enjoying Melbourne now. In the beginning, I was like, Oh my God, I moved here in March and I think by April, it was freezing, so March last year. Um, yeah, but April it was freezing and I was just like, what have I done, this is a nightmare. But I'm actually not that cold right now, and it's getting pretty cold.

Eddy: That's awesome. You've acclimatized.

Melanie: I have, look at me go.

Eddy: Yeah. And like, it's such an incredible lineup of artists at that studio too. So just being surrounded by that caliber of work, it would be so inspiring.

Melanie: Yeah. It's amazing. And you know, what as well, like every shop I've ever worked at, I've been one of, maybe two girls sometimes three, but it's always been like 80% men in every shop I've ever worked at. And I, I will admit, I was a bit nervous about going to a shop that was all women

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: Cause I am a bit more used to people being quite like boisterous and loud and even kind of like the inappropriate jokes I do enjoy a little bit, and it's just, it's different. And I was a bit worried about it being kind of a bit, um a bit quiet. You know?

Eddy: Yeah

Melanie: And it definitely is a different vibe, but it is the most drama free environment I have ever been in. People are just so happy to be there. Everyone loves their job. And everyone loves each other. Everyone's really, really encouraging and supportive and it's so nice. And there's no one fighting over walk-ins and there's no like 40 year old dudes arguing over like just dumb bullshit. It's awesome I love working in an all girl shop. It's great. Oh actually, our shop manager as a boy.

Eddy: It's definitely a different dynamic, like, cause I like we've, we've only recently got Paul working with us, but for the past five years it's just been like women and it's just such a different dynamic. It's more, it's more loving and nurturing and kind, and not, not in a way of where like women are expected to be that way. It's just that we don't have to live up to this bravado anymore, or like meet this hype so that energy is able to go to other places and we just want to uplift each other.

Melanie: Yeah. You're not trying to fight to be alpha male or anything like that. You know, you're not, you're not trying to hide you're softer, sensitive side so that people, you know, will respect you, you just being yourself, and you don't have to compete with anyone. It's really lovely.

Eddy: Yeah. I find in those kinds of studios as well, there tends to be less hierarchy. Like, I mean, just from what I know with Clare, it's not like, I'm the boss and you're all working for me. You know? It's like we're in it together.

Melanie: Yeah. Pretty much all the men I've worked for have been that, that I'm the boss type guy, you know, they have like that commanding presence when they walk in, everyone kind of is a bit on edge. Um, and it's not quite, I don't know if it's always deserved. It's just like this natural thing that happens. Um, but it's not like that at all especially with Clare. It's just like, I'm super excited when she comes in, which is great. It's just the best place to work. I hope she watches this. I love her.

Eddy: I actually, I actually asked her if I can interview her. So I think I will be at some point in the future. She's so amazing.

Melanie: I actually ran into her at Bunnings like two days ago, I was like, oh my god oh my god and we just hugged in front of everyone, I was like I'm going to get arrested.

Eddy: She's so she's one of those artists you fan girl over, like you meet her and you get butterflies.

Melanie: Every time she like posts something. I'm like, Oh, what is it? And then I get to see it I'm like fuck her for being so good. She is absolutely loving iso by the way. Loving it.

Eddy: She just paints and draws like sh I mean, when, I guess she she's prepared for it because she had time down with her arm, like, with the wrist yeah.

Melanie: Yeah. She loved it. She's having the best time. I wish I had like one 10th of, of her, like ah drive to create, I don't, but it's just like out the window. When I'm really busy at work, I am like, I don't know what it is. I think it's just like productivity breeds productivity, like when I'm flat out tattooing, all I want is like a day off where I can just paint whatever I want. And then when I have that day off, I'm just like, eh, wish I was tattooing. And then when I have like two months off, I'm like, I know I'm going to go back to work and just kick myself for not, you know, using this time more wisely. But I think everyone's a little bit in that boat.

Eddy: Yeah. It's hard to like find the energy when there's no end game. There's you don't know when you get to go back to work, it's just Groundhog day.

Melanie: Totally. And if they had said, if they, if they came and said, you know, you're going back to work in two weeks, I'll be like, shit, I've got two weeks. Cool. I'm going to do, I'm going to draw heaps of like designs up so that when I go back, I can tattoo a bunch of stuff that I want to do. But at this point I'm like, meh, I don't want to go back.

Eddy: I can't even think about drawing a tattoo design, like. I've sat down to try to do it a couple of times. And it's like, no, Nope, definitely just not even in that head space, I can't even think that way, right now.

Melanie: Yeah. I've done a few commissions, um, just to keep my like food on the table. Um, and even that it's just really hard to get started. Once I've started It's okay. You know, it's like anything that we do, you're just like cool. Once you're in it, you're in it. But it's just that like getting yourself to the point where you sit down and start something, especially when it's a commission and it's not for you. And it's a client brief. It's so much harder.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: Yeah. It's just drawing a tattoo, you know, like. Yeah, but.

Eddy: You're really

Melanie: I'll get there.

Eddy: Yeah, you will. You've always been so good at that though. Like giving clients what they want. And I like, I love how that's always been a really important part of your, um, practice that, uh, you've you've told me before, how you care more about making your client happy than you do about putting yourself into everything.

Melanie: Yeah. And I think that just comes from working in street shops though for you know forever, um, at the end of this year will be my 10th year tattooing. And I've spent nine of those working in street shops. And your clients aren't always coming to you for your specific style, like luckily in the, in the last few years, it's been more of the case for me, which has been really cool, but I still always am happy to tattoo to anyone or anything, as long as I think I could do a decent job of it.

But I think it, and I think it started out less, less of, of, of trying to please the customer and more of just trying to make it easier on myself in the beginning. People will come in and they show you their reference photos and what they want. And you get a really good idea of what they're gonna be happy with just from what they like. And so I always, when I would be drawing stuff, I find myself drawing in several different styles or like slight variations because you know that you're going to have to draw it less times if you just get it right for them first go.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: And that's part of working in a street shop. Like I can see this lady brought in a butterfly that she wants, and it's a bit more kind of a nineties street shop flash style than maybe a traditional one that I would draw if I had the choice, but I know if I draw my version, she's going to want it a bit more her away. And at the end of the day, I see the tattoo for a couple of hours she sees it for the rest of her life. So more about making sure she walks out happy. She's more likely to come back. She's more likely to trust me, maybe the next few times, then I can put my own spin on it. But at the end of the day, I just want them to get the tattoo they want. And also like, it's just, I think it's more rewarding. You know, you have a better experience with the customer. Then if you spend an hour trying to push them towards getting this thing that you want to do. It's like, that's what, that's what your flash is for. You know? You can draw whatever you want on your flash. If people want to get it, they'll get it. But if someone has approached you and said, Hey, this is what I want. You know, you owe it to them to respect that a bit. And you obviously, within reason, you know? Someone comes in with something ridiculous that's not going to work or something. That's just absolutely hideous, you say no, you know, rather than, than, than forcing them to get something they didn't want.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: I think I've.. and I see. I see it alot especially with people who never worked in street shops, they don't understand that. And I think that uh, you know, it's all about, their kind of in art their own artistic integrity and they have to push their product on the customer. It's not what it's about. You don't have to wear that for the rest of your life. And I totally appreciate people who just want to do one thing and they say no to other stuff. Amen to that. Like, that's amazing. But I dunno, I still enjoy tattooing things that I don't, you know that I, stuff that I don't do every day. I like that. Breaks it up. You see people who do the same tattoo, like all the time with the same color palette every day. And you're just like, cool but aren't you bored.

Eddy: Yeah. And sometimes you can limit yourself for future growth as well. If you don't have a little bit of versatility in there.

Melanie: Yeah, yeah. And people see you just like, they look at your Instagram or your online profile or and they just see the same kind of four or five tattoos, same subject matter, same color palette. And at some point they go, well, I don't want that because there's 30 other people who have that.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: And it does get a bit annoying because it was a, a brief moment where it was happening to me. Like I've done the panther with flowers in it like 30 times, I love, I will tattoo panthers every day of the week I love it. It's awesome. But I do try to change it up a little bit, cause you don't want, and it's one of those cases where it's something I've put on my flash.

So people see it and they're like cool, but I also don't want to give someone the same tattoo over and over again. Try to say, Hey, like let's do a different color or let's try a different flower. And sometimes people like, no, I want that one that you already did. And like, Hey, your tattoo, you can have whatever you want. It goes both ways. It's like, you wanna give people they want, but sometimes people just want the same thing you've done a million times.

Eddy: Yeah. There's really like there's so many different kinds of clients and client expectations. And that's why there's such a place for all of these different kinds of tattooers.

Melanie: Totally.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: And there is just so many like kind of sub genres of tattooing these days as well, like people get really old school about it and say like that tattooing’s just not what it used to be. It's like, well, the clients, aren't what they used to be either. It used to be that clients would just walk in and because there was such a limit to what was available, you know, you'd walk in and there'd be a flash on the wall and you pick something and it's a really cool, like ideology and a really cool tradition. And we'll look back at it and go, that's great. That's how tattooing should be, it's great. But it's also, the clients are changing, you know, and they want what they want. And just someone out there is going to give it to them. So you can't be mad at other people for being opportunistic about it. Like, I don't really love the kind of trendy single line, um, like backyard prison tat thing happening. I don't love it. But if I was making thousands of dollars a week from doing that. Like, I'm not going to stop. You know, people are coming to me and asking for it, like, go for it, that's fine.

Eddy: There's a demand there, so.

Melanie: There's a demand there, I don't like, it's not something I'll get but I don't care. I don't like like you know real color realism, portraiture but people fucking love it.

Eddy: They really do, don't, I've never understood it, but they love it.

Melanie: The people who are doing it are incredible obviously to be able to sit there and tattoo like you know a wet face portrait, amazing.

Eddy: For 10 hours.

Melanie: 10 hours. Oh my god, I can't even, I don't like sitting with the same person for more than three hours. I'm like no, even if it's a sick tattoo. I'm like, ah, no, three hours is my max. Three hours is my max That's enough looking at the same thing.

Eddy: Yep.

Melanie: So I don't know how they do it and they're incredible artists, but it's not for me. And it's exactly the same thing, it's like people with so many different, so many different sub genres of tattooing now, and so many different sub genres of clients. Like something for everyone I guess.

Eddy: Yeah, I think like that whole, like this whole social thing of instant gratification where you can just click on the internet and get everything you want straight away it's totally changed the way people interact with tattooers and what they expect from us.

Melanie: Yeah. Totally like just the questions that you get in that other inbox.

Eddy: Yeah The one I avoid.

Melanie: Yeah, totally. People talk to you like a robot and not like a person, I hate that. Like I'm not a very tech savvy person. And if I could go back to not having Instagram, that would be great. But like we're of the generation that their careers on Instagram. So we are nothing without it. Unfortunately.

Eddy: Yeah, I think I had a year without it, like when I first, cause I'm, I was 10 years at the start of this year and yeah, I think I had a year before I kind of signed up and then it was like just, it changed everything.

Melanie: Yeah. Oh, I know right. I remember like when I would first start, I remember when I did my first guest, whatever, uh, it was at Mimsy’s. When she was out at Annerley. Not at Annerley.

Eddy: I did my first guest spot there too.

Melanie: Yeah, I think alot of people did. Out at Archerfield at the airport. And, um, and I remember, I think I had like 1000 followers at the time and I posted that I was going to be doing a guest spot and I got 40 emails for this one guest spot.

Eddy: Wow

Melanie: And my tattoos were horrible, horrible. And I filled... straight away and that's just like the difference in how small, like the Instagram community was then for like tattoo clients. Like I remember some of the first people that like followed me, it was like, um, Doug Hardy and people like that. And it's like I was doing horrible tattoos and here's this like here's Doug Hardy's following me because there's just not that many of us on Instagram you know, we followed each other and it was a really tight community and people who wanted to get tattooed follow you and it was really sick. And now it's just people who like colorful photos, they follow you. They're never going to get tattooed by you. They don't like your work, they're just looking. That's fine. But you know, But it was a real kind of tangible thing that we were all using to promote ourselves and it worked and it just, I don't find it doesn't work as much now.

Eddy: I agree. It's become more about a lifestyle rather than the product.

Melanie: Totally like I will post and it's obviously, you know, the algorithms change and people don't see things, um, chronologically anymore. And. It's just not as effective. Like I can post that and I've got a bunch more followers than years ago. And I can post say that I'm going to Sydney to do a guest spot and I get maybe one or two emails. And then maybe like a couple of days later, I'll post again and I'll get one or two more, you know, it's just, it doesn't work in the same way.

Eddy: Yeah

Melanie: It's not as effective but we're all just slaves to it still.

Eddy: Like the amount of time we spend on it.

Melanie: I've been, and we're all I think, guilty of it because you just find yourself scrolling and you know what for, what am I looking at this for? I'm not. I'm not, I'm not talking to anyone. I'm just looking at nonsense and then looking at ads. It's just, yeah, I wish I wish I could just put it in a bin. But I can't, I can't.

Eddy: No

Melanie: No, my business relies on it unfortunately. And the way that it, they've got us now is that we have to use it more to be seen more. I hate that I wish I could just dump a photo or do a post and leave it in. My inbox would fill up, but it's not, you know, they want engagement and they want you to contact people. Oh my phones ringing, hello.

Eddy: Yeah. I, I I've been trying to adjust the way I use it to find like a happier balance so that like, you know, Like I talk about it all the time, how much I think community is important. So I've just been like, okay. So it wants me to be engaging with people so I can get them to view me more. So I'm just going to engage with people I'm interested in and just react with love hearts to people's stories or tell people I think they wonderful, like compliment somebody's tattoo and then that way I'm like, I'm doing something nice. Maybe I'm making someone's day. And I'm also kind of getting what I need out of Instagram in return.

Melanie: Yeah. It's a good, It's kind of like the only, I think you can do it without just being. Like without it being kind of negative, you just spending hours on it, you know?

Eddy: Um, yeah. It's, it's actually going to be really interesting to see what the future holds for tattooing, whether it be like in the next media platform, or even like, I'm really interested to see how this current situation's going to affect street shops. Because I can't imagine tattooers getting a, I guess, an education in versatility without street shops.

Melanie: Mmmh.

Eddy: And so, what, what will tattooing like, look like, you know?

Melanie: I don't know. Hey, it's it's, it's getting, it's getting so, um, Filtered into these different kind of categories. And as well, I was thinking the other day about like people who are starting tattooing now, and most of the people who I kind of see breaking into it are people who are kind of like, well established in social media already, and, you know, maybe they're like an artist or an illustrator or, or, or you can just, you know, someone who's got a cool look and people follow them. Um, and so they, they kind of break into tattooing because they've already got the clientele.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: And so, you know, it's not like us where we had to kind of, you know, we wouldn't know one, um, but we liked to draw and then we'd go into a shop when we learned to tattoo and then we tattoo what comes in the door it's for them. They're, you know, they've already got a product and they've already got a market. They just, they, they just need like a way to make money off it. I'm seeing that a little bit. And I don't know how I feel about it, but that's I think that's the way that tattooing goes now. It's like people who are going to be doing their whole career based on this one, kind of, so say someone like does a particular style of drawing and everyone loves it. And they're just gonna tattoo that, they don't have to kind of come up through the ladder like what we did. I think that those are the people I worry about the most. Because how long can that, how long can you support yourself on that.

Eddy: Yeah, absolutely. And like, I, I feel sad for the people who didn't get to do the Cherry Creek butterflies or the Boog kind of script, or I don't know like.

Melanie: There's these like Tony Ranger, I think it's a Tony Ranger sheet and it's, um, these three, like futuristic dragons and they're black and gray. And they like one of thems got his arms crossed, and they've got like terminator, like a robot parts.

Eddy: Oh my God.

Melanie: And I just, whenever I think of, cause the first shop I worked at, Tattoo Nation at Wentworthville in Sydney. We had a lot of like Cherry Creek, Gary Davis and Tony Ranger, all that kind of stuff up on the walls. And it's just burned into my retinas this...sheet. I love it. It's amazing. Everyone google it. That one. And then the tramp stamp butterfly that's made of tigers eyes.

Eddy: Oh my God. I have tattooed that so many times.

Melanie: It's amazing. It's amazing. I think I might do an updated version or something.

Eddy: That would be. I would love to see just like a whole bunch of people doing their versions of old Cherry Creek and just like, we should make a book of like Cherry Creek for the new age.

Melanie: The new age. Yeah. And it's just like it. So, you know, like, I don't know if you can use the word nostalgic, it's only 10 years ago, but like it just, it is, it is seeing that stuff is really nostalgic. It makes me happy. Cause at the time when I was doing my apprenticeship, I was like, this is horrible... it was really hard, but I look back on it now and think awww, what a good time.

Eddy: I know. It feels like such another world though.

Melanie: It feels like such another world and I think it's just tattooing has changed so much like it was still so, not underground, but it was, it was, you know, a lot more of an alternative lifestyle. And I just, I don't find it is that anymore. You know?

Eddy: Yeah

Melanie: I don't think you can call tattooing alternative, especially in the state that it's in and the way that it's done now.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: How. No one, I don't think many people are scared to walk into a tattoo shop these days.

Eddy: It's going to be metal to pop.

Melanie: It has it totally has. Yeah. That's a really good way to put it. Yeah. I like pop, you know.

Eddy: Same

Melanie: I didn't get into tattooing cause I thought it was pop, you know.

Eddy: Yeah you kind of get into it because you don't want, you don't want to follow that same nine to five path. You want something different in life.

Melanie: Yeah, you totally do. Yeah. And I don't think it's ever going to be a nine to five thing. Like there's elements of it. You know what you see tattoo shops popping up in shopping centers and, and, and tattoo courses being sold on Facebook.

Eddy: Oh I hate that.

Melanie: There's elements of it that..Like ugh. But just stay away from it, you know, stay away from it, doing your own thing and try to keep tattooing metal.

Eddy: Yeah. And it's funny how you come full circle. Cause I remember in my first year of tattooing doing, um, a tribal, you know, that nineties tribal, white dude tribal half slave. And it was like, Oh, sorry, bad. And I was like, literally having micro sleeps doing it.

Melanie: Yeah.

Eddy: And I hated it. And I was like, I am never doing tribal again for all of these years I didn't do it again. But then recently I did a little, little nineties tribal thing on my apprentice. And I was like this is the most fun I've had in so long.

Melanie: Man like they used to be, um, we would, we would place bets on people walking into the shop when I worked at Wenty. And you would, you, you would say like what, what you thought that they were coming in to get, and it was either tribal or it was like a Edwardian script down the back of the arm, like whatever they wanted to say. But the tribal image was always, if you Googled at the time, if you'd Google tribal, there was a tribal tattoo. There was this image that was an underwear ad and it was a guy Photoshopped. And it was like, A full sleeve, peck and down the side of his ribs and really poorly Photoshopped, um, like tribal design, but people would bring that in as reference. It was like the second or third photo that would come up on google and people would bring it in this reference like daily. Not, not even kidding, just daily and the amount of time I saw that done. And I actually tattooed it once myself. Uh, and at the time the shop that I worked at, nobody used mags. I'd never heard of a mag, I'd never seen one. Um, and everyone just used round shaders, so all the tribal that I did was with a round shader.

Eddy: Oh my god.

Melanie: And it took forever, oh my god, forever. But it's, it's a good way to get solid, solid tattoos, with a round shader.

Eddy: I think I was using like five mags and seven mags. So not huge, but that's still easier than a round shader.

Melanie: I'd never seen one. I'd never seen one. And when I went to the first time I did, I was just like, Whoa, what is that? That's crazy. But at that shop, like there was weird shit. You know, we, we all shared inks, like the shop supplied everyone's ink and we have this big set of classics. So it was cool. I wish I could go back and nick them all and we all shared tubes. So when I was apprenticing there, I literally just scrubbed tubes all day and people would come in and be like, shit, I need like a three liner or seven liner. Have you got any? I'd be like under the pump trying to make sure I'd scrubbed enough tubes so everyone could continue tattooing because the shop was open from 11:00 AM to midnight.

Eddy: Wow.

Melanie: And then 3:00 AM on like Friday and Saturday. So just constantly scrubbing tubes for like 12 hours a day.

Eddy: Was it busy that late at night?

Melanie: Oh my god. It was crazy. Uh, you know, sometimes it would be a little quiet right late at night, but for the most part, it was like eight people tattooing till midnight.

Eddy: I can't imagine, as a client wanting to get a tattoo at 11 o'clock at night.

Melanie: It was more just the fact that everyone wanted to get tattooed. And there wasn't that many shops around at the time compared to now, and people were just taking whatever was available. So people would come in and they'd say like, when can I get tattooed? And I say, Oh, you can't get tattooed until Thursday next week at 9:30 at night. And they'd go, cool. No worries. Book me in. Because they just want it to get tattooed. And it's just different now. Like I find myself saying, Oh, what day do you want to do, you know, what works best for you? And like, that's my, obviously I'd much prefer that, you know, not be working till three in the morning, but a little bit of me misses it. Like it was just, it was this cool whole other world. And we lived in that tattoo shop and we never left and we ate all of our meals in there and we'd all go out together. And I worked with a bunch of fucking lunatics, but it was like just a really interesting place to be. And it just feels like so long ago.

Eddy: I remember like tattoo shops that had like fish ponds in the waiting room and stuff like and carpet.

Melanie: We had this like, We had, I'm going to Google it later and see if I can find photos of it. It's probably in some old magazine somewhere, but we had this counter that was made all of checker plate steel. And it like had this big sculpture on the corner. I can't even remember it was, it was like a dragony type thing.

Eddy: Of Cause it was a dragon.

Melanie: Like, like metal checkerboard counter and then black and white checkered floor, red walls, like classic 90's, 2000's tattoo shop.

Eddy: That's literally what they all looked like.

Melanie: Red walls. Why was that the color?

Eddy: Red and black.

Melanie: Red, black, and then the checkered floors. Every single one. Yeah.

Eddy: I'm actually really scarred by that now though, like, I can't handle being in places that have like red walls and black walls, like it's just too much. That's why the walls here are like baby pink. Like. But 10 years time, that'll be the way everyone will be like, I can't believe they had baby pink walls in tattoo shops back then.

Melanie: Oh my god, subway tiles, what were they thinking?

Eddy: Industrial chic. Ewwww.

Melanie: Yeah. It's, it's burned, it's burned into the memory, but I miss it a bit, but I don't. Do you know what I mean?

Eddy: Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like, you feel that nostalgia for it, but then if you had to live in that world again, you'd kind of, it would just be like, Oh.

Melanie: Yeah, I couldn't go back to it now, but I'm glad that I lived through it, and I think that, um, I feel sorry for people who were getting into tattooing in the last few years and aren't going to ever really have to work. And like, I'm not saying those shops don't exist, they definitely still exists, but there are a lot... And, um, and obviously I think people are a bit more hesitant to get a, an apprentice these days, just cause there's so many of us and, and I think anyone who's lucky enough to break in is really like, they should thank their lucky stars, but I just those shops definitely exist, but it's just not, it's just not really tattooing anymore. Whereas it used to be the only way. You know?

Eddy: Yeah. But everything's changing and I think like a lot of it's for the better. And like, even like what we were doing with the Not Just A Girl flash days, you know, we were so fucking sick of the way we were treated and the way we were ostracized. And then we're like, Nope, fuck it. We'll make our own space.

Melanie: Do our own thing. And I can still say to this day that it's the best thing I've ever done. Like

Eddy: Same.

Melanie: You know, it's the best thing. I think we created something really awesome. The day itself or the days themselves, were just like magic, like just electric, the mood in the air and just the comradery and everyone just doing this thing. Out of pure selfishness, ah selflessness and just getting to have a really nice time for a good cause. And I think, I don't know about you and if you feel the same way, but I think it definitely changed the mood a little bit for, um, female tattooing in Australia.

Eddy: I think so.

Melanie: I don't mean to brag, but.

Eddy: No, I think it did. And I get a lot of messages from younger female artists like coming up when we started doing that saying like, Oh, this is like so inspiring that I can, I don't have to go through what you guys went through now.

Melanie: Yeah. Because that, and like you know there's been other, other worldwide things like, what Ashley Love is doing with Still Not Asking For It.

Eddy: It's So amazing.

Melanie: So cool. Um, and all of that kind of happening concurrently in tattooing. I think it just, it does, it opens the dialogue a little bit more women in tattooing. And just women in any industry really that's heavily male dominated.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: But we, I don't want to say lucky cause we did it ourselves, but we're lucky to have got to have created that.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: And I'm really proud of us.

Eddy: Yeah. I'm proud of us too. It's so amazing.

Melanie: And everyone who helped. Like, go us.

Eddy: Yeah. I feel like, I feel like, like you have a real knack of like, Being able to communicate with people. And I think like you were really able to bring lots of different kinds of people together for that from different kind of cliques and groups, and really bridge that gap. And you also got a lot of good male allies on board with us as well. Like that, like that was really crucial to making it a success. I think how much you are able to remove the borders between the cliques.

Melanie: Yeah, I think for me, I wanted it to be, because we all know that men do can and the anti-feminists are not always men, but a lot of people get, uh, kind of getting up back up a bit when you call something feminist. Or when you put it under the banner of this is a feminist event. And so I knew like, even though as much as I know it was a feminist event, I mean, I wanted to try to avoid that stigma so that we could have people on board. If I was,if we're ramming it down people's throats as fuck you this is, you know, this is all about women and it is obviously, but, um, the people would have been less likely to be open minded about the event.

Eddy: Yep Absolutely

Melanie: We still obviously had complete fuckwits being like oh why can't I tattoo at it? Well, cause you can tattoo at every single fucking thing that's ever happened.

Eddy: Like, well, we'll bake a boy tattoo flash day. Like um that's literally every flash day.

Melanie: I'm not saying you can't come and you can't support us. It's just this one, one day where you're not allowed to tattoo so fuck you. Um, no, but I think, I think it all, I really wanted is it for, to be an event where all of the amazing women that we know and like we barely, like, it was the tip of the iceberg as far as female talent in Australia. And it's just a shame we couldn't have a bigger venue, and we could have everyone tattooing.

Eddy: Oh my god. That's the dream.

Melanie: Totally the dream, totally the dream. But I wanted it to just be an event where we showcase our talent and we could raise money for charity. And that was it, I didn't want to have to like and I just, I just wanted the, that speak for itself, you know, if because people are just so ignorant sometimes about this type of thing and the fact that we were having people being like well why cant I tattoo, it's like you literally don't have no idea do you. You don't see, you know, that every, every event is so heavily male dominated.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: It doesn't occur to them. So for us to just have our event, we raised almost a hundred grand, like we're the best.

Eddy: Yeah, in one day.

Melanie: One day, and we had, I've never seen another flash day that has had, has had as much attention or as, as positive a reception like there's, you know, there's been these incredible flash days, all across Australia that, uh, People lining up around the block for. But, they're not the same. It's not, they know they don't, they don't even come close to what we did.

Eddy: Yeah. And it was the fact that every artist, they did not expect anything in return. They were, they gave a hundred percent to the charity. And you had people like Loren Norrie who raised on their own in one day it was something like four and a half grand.

Melanie: Yeah, she did. She did the most tattoos, like on our second flash day. Um, yeah, the most tattoos over the, over that period of time, like absolutely smashed it, Loren smashes daily. She's a boss.

Eddy: She's a legend.

Melanie: And as well, like it's really good to have people like her onboard because, uh, it just shows like how hard we can work and how much effort that we put into not even like a charity event, just tattooing in general. How much of a contribution we make. I just think everyone who was involved, everyone who came, everyone who got tattooed. Everyone should be stoked. And

Eddy: Yeah. It was so positive just seeing people, making friends in the line and like, while they were waiting to get tattooed, like people, uh, I've I've heard that people have still stayed in touch with people they've met at the flash day.

Melanie: Oh man when we showed up and there was people like already, lined up, I remember that first day and we were like is anyone going to come to this. Oh my god, what do we do, ah. And it was months and months that we'd been planning. And then when we showed up that morning and there was already a line, we were like oh my god, oh my god this has happened. It was, it was crazy. And that first one that we did on the first day and the line just like down around the block, like, Oh, just wild.

Eddy: I've never seen anything like that. It's so funny because I remember, you know, in the earlier years of my career, like, um, you know, working in male dominated shops, you know, being told that girls can't get along, you know, you can't, you can't have too many women in a shop. And we, we had at one point 30 something women shop.

Melanie: In a room, all tattooing at once. And I, the only negatives that ever came out of our flash days were comments that we were getting from men or emails that we were getting for men. Um, or like, you know it, and I think like when I was saying before about, I was worried about working in a shop with all women. And it just comes from years of men telling you that women can't get along.. Are emotional and it's like, okay, cool. But it's actually you, that's you.

Eddy: Yeah, absolutely.

Melanie: All of the drama and all of the fights that ever happened in any shop I was working at, it all stemmed from some male insecurity and or being competitive with each other or egos or. You know, there was never, it was never a girl fighting girls. And I think that that's just shit they put in our heads.

Eddy: Yeah. And when it has been, it's often been because we've been pit against each other and told to compete.

Melanie: Absolutely.

Eddy: And forced to be in that position and that, it makes me really sad. Like I think of some situations in the past where I've been pit up against other women, whether they be in the same studio or another studio, and it's like, sad because it's like, that could have been a beautiful friendship and we could have helped each other and worked together. And, yeah. And I'm so fortunate now to be in a situation where I don't let that get in the way. And I have incredible friends all over the world who are tattooers from any gender, but like none of that gets in the way anymore.

Melanie: Absolutely. And like what you said about us having 30 women in a room and it was just the most positive, magical day, the whole time that anyone's ever experienced ever. So, you know, it's, it's just a testament to that. Isn't it?

Eddy: Yeah, it totally changed the way I approach tattooing and the way I approach like running my studio and flash days and customers, like it's, it's honestly like that whole experience from that first group chat, when we decided to do it to like, to now, like everything about Not Just A Girl, it has changed my approach and my career and everything.

Melanie: For sure. I feel exactly the same. It's great. I wish that I wish that I hadn't let all of the negativity that we got, um, get to me as well. Cause it does sour it a little bit like, you know, in the lead up, it is just that anxiety of you just waiting for people to criticize you and attack you. I don't cope well with that, like face to face confrontation I'm all about. But if I go away, I'll like, let it eat away at me. If someone wants to say something to my face, I'm like, cool. cool, cool. Let's go. Um, here's my opinion and why that's incorrect.

But like, just having people being snarky to me on the internet, I don't know, I think it's cause I wasn't really on the internet a lot as a kid. I think maybe kids deal better with it these days because it happens to them more often, but when someone comes for me and I'm like you don't know me or why are you being mean to me? I don't, I let that get to me a little bit. Like we would have people message us and say, why are you raising money for women's domestic violence violence, don't you know, men that men are the victims of domestic violence as well. Just people, just little things like that all the time. I'm like, I would take it really personally because we put in so much effort and like all our blood, sweat, and tears into this to do this really, what I thought was an incredible thing and raise money for women's charities. But apparently that's not good enough. And I have seen that, no matter what you do, someone is going to criticize you.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: Well, and I started to like reach out to people and say like, I don't know well, if you feel strongly about that, then here's a link to go and donate to a men's domestic violence shelter. Because maybe instead of you criticizing me, why don't you just take your efforts and put them into something positive.

Eddy: Yeah. That's it.

Melanie: More like fuck you.

Eddy: I think it was you actually, who said at the time, cause you know, we were both really struggling with the negative feedback we were getting and I think you said something like, you know, if we were raising money for you know, brain cancer, you wouldn't ask us why we're not raising money for lung cancer. It's only because we're raising money for women that you have a problem with it.

Melanie: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. It was really hard as well. And like, I would have people ring me and say like, Why isn't this person doing it and I'd be like, well, they haven't contacted me themselves. So, um, why? And like, it would be like a man, it would be like a friend of this female tattooer, a male friend. And he would be calling me and saying, why isn't X doing this event? And I'm like, okay, well, she never reached out and said she wanted to do it. Um, so I don't know why you are now contacting me like this is a problem. And, and just, just every single thing they did was criticize. And I. It just is, it was really hard. And I want people to know that so that they can just let people do things and not fucking dicks about it.

Eddy: Yeah. When someone's doing something nice, let them do it.

Melanie: Yeah. Everyone can find an issue with anything. And it's, I think sometimes you have to just, you have to just try to be try to see the positives in things. Like, obviously, noone's perfect. We're not perfect. Especially like our first year, we were just figuring things out as we went along, and it is hard to kind of put one of those large events together and please everyone. It's impossible. You can't do it. And I think we were probably too sensitive. And I think maybe you've got to be thicker skinned. Like, I can't imagine how hard it is running, you know, like the tattoo expos and stuff like that. I don't agree with 90% of the shit that they do at those things.

Eddy: No, I'm not a fan.

Melanie: And then like, but I still do appreciate how hard it would be to put on a large event like that. Um, because you're not going to please everyone, you are definitely not going to please anyone when you're like making it and marketing it in such a way. And I think we, we went, we went the opposite, you know, we tried to be really open minded and really inclusive. Um, and obviously when you are, when you've kind of taken that political stance, you have the open target for any criticism.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: Yeah, I just.

Eddy: And I welcome constructive criticism always, but there's a way to go about it.

Melanie: There is a way to go about it. Absolutely. Um, I know that, and it was things like people coming up, somebody had a flash sheet that had like, like pads or tampons on it. And we got, we got criticism that not all women menstruate, it's like, we totally understand that. Obviously, we are, you know, Uh, supportive of all the gender spectrum, but.

Eddy: That artists experience was as a woman who menstruates, and they had a right to express that. Yeah.

Melanie: And so. And it's just like, you can't criticize every, not every single thing in life is going to be completely inclusive. Unfortunately, it's impossible. Um, you know, because if, if, if it is something like menstruation where it's just, it's a biological thing, you can't control it, it happens to some people and it doesn't happen to some people. It doesn't mean that we can't talk about it, unfortunately for those people who don't want to hear it. Um, and, and just stuff like that, it's like, we're trying our best to be a really inclusive, uh, and supportive and open-minded event. So I don't know, I thought we couldn't win for a little while there, but on the day it all went great. And I was stoked and I would do it again. I've just, I think I'd need some Valium.

Eddy: Yeah, I think, I think that's why we had to have a break from doing the flash days. It was a lot. I think after that second one, we were like, fucked.

Melanie: Yeah. Yeah. We totally were. And I was just a bit drained. Um, just mentally for all that stuff. I'm just not built for it. I'm not built to argue with people on the internet and I'm not built to let things go either. Unfortunately, if I could just have like, you know, have it roll, like water off a ducks back I would, but I can't, I just, I just take it all to heart.

Eddy: Yeah.

Melanie: And I think you do too.

Eddy: Yep.

Melanie: And I think it's because you love the event and we were so proud of it. That we could, we couldn't not take it personally.

Eddy: Absolutely. I like, I just want to undermine the patriarchy and burn it all the fuck down, but I also don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. And it's really really hard to find that balance.

Melanie: I don’t want anyone to be mean to me either. Here you go you've done such a great thing though here's a medal. That’s what I want, you know.

Eddy: Just give me, give me a pat on the head, and a chocolate bar, please.

Melanie: Absolutely, that's all I wanted. You know and I wanted to raise money for charity. And we did, and we did that. We did it so well, but you know, we, we did that and that was great. Like I remember, I think it was after our first one and one of our charities was the um, I can't even remember what the charity was called, but it was the educational program for women in Africa and we'd sent out checks off to everyone. And then we got an email back from one of the directors there and she had actually written us a really, really beautiful response telling us exactly where the money went to and it helped to put I think it was 43 women, um, through their full, like primary to high school education, and then go on to do business school and like, just, and these are women who are living in like extreme poverty who would never have been educated, who probably died quite early from starvation. It just. And it's completely transformed the lives of 43 women. And that is just like worth it, you know, alone.

Eddy: Yeah. I know it's almost like, you know, we're complaining about people saying mean things to us on the internet, and then these women are like

Melanie: Starving.

Eddy: Being abused, like being sold and child brides and like, yeah. It's I feel like that's the power of, of like our position as artists. Like, you know, we've got all this privilege and we can use it to help someone who doesn't.

Melanie: Yeah. It's just, yeah, like that obviously overshadowed any negativity we got and it was just, it was amazing. And I remember reading that email and just like welling up and being like, Oh my God, actually it was actually worth it and I just was really really stoked on that. And I'm so thankful to everyone who participated.

Eddy: Yeah. Yeah, and it's really nice, I feel like everyone. Like every, if not everyone, at least most of us who participated, like I think we still stay in touch. I think we definitely have friendships that are ongoing as a result.

Melanie: Yeah. And I got to meet some tattooers who I hadn't met, who I've looked up to for years like Stacey Ann. I've been looking at Stacey's tattoos forever.

Eddy: She's so talented.

Melanie: And then you just, you have no idea, how these, especially because of Instagram most of the people that we know through tattooing we've been introduced to them through the internet. Stacey, I'd been introduced to her through magazines years ago and always thought she was amazing. And then when I got to meet her in person and she was a legend, I was just like, my heart was so happy. I remember at the end of the day and her and I were hugging. And I was just like, man, I just want to like come to Perth and hang out and you and I just hang out, and it'll be really nice and we can be friends. And just things like that, all these little, little, like relationships that I made and friends that I got to meet and people who I've admired and I got to meet, but that was just this huge positive that came out of it as well. It's so great.

Eddy: It's the best. I'm so proud of us.

Melanie: ...those breakfast meetings. It was great.

Eddy: I really hope we get to do it again one day, like who knows when events can happen again, but.

Melanie: Oh I know. Yeah, it's very strange. And like, I know you and I have talked about where it's going to go down the road. And we've talked about conventions or doing it as like at separate shops, more in the kind of format that "I'm Still Not Asking For It" is run, you know, where it's less, we kind of take less involvement. And I think that that would be probably better for our mental health.

Eddy: Yes, easier.

Melanie: We both were kind of quite. We, we are pretty strict about how we wanted it to go down and what kind of, yeah, what kind of message we were spreading and there's so many, there's so many elements to that, that we would have to not, we'd have to release the control. And I think that. That's that's a little scary for both of us. But, I don't know maybe, maybe if we do want to kind of take over the world, then that's the option.

Eddy: Yep, I definitely feel like that's the next step.

Melanie: Yeah. Yeah. I think convention. I don't know about you, but that's stresses me out.

Eddy: Dude, I started looking into it and like started planning it. And I was, I got like a couple of months into like looking into it and I was just like, Nope, Nope. I will have full on have a meltdown if I do this.

Melanie: Yeah, I think it would. I don't think I have it in me. You know, I. Clare always gives me shit at work for being like a messy, organized... She's one of the most organised people in the world, you open her drawers like in her tool chest and everything's like laid out beautifully. She actually like asked me at the end of last year, she’s like, would you mind if I organized all the drawers for you, I was like, no, go for it, go for it. Like I have, like you know, a tool trolley that has four or five drawers in it, and they are all junk drawers, all of them. I've got like tubes in a few, needles in a few and machines all over the place and like a drawer at the bottom you can't open cause it's full of crap. There's nothing about me that is organised at all. And so to organize an event of that scale would be. Yeah, I think completely out of my depth.

Eddy: Yeah. See I'm super old, but I'm also like highly strung. And so it's just like not happening.

Melanie: Yeah, I'm not highly strung. I'm like too low strung, like I just don't care enough at all, at all.

Eddy: But I think that's why we worked, we worked well together and with Sash as well, like we're all very different personality types and there was a balance.

Melanie: I did the schmoozing and you did the like proper actual organization. I just showed up.

Eddy: I was like Amy from Brooklyn Nine Nine with my like binder folder with colors.

Melanie: Oh the binders, yep, all the binders. All your tabs and your binders. I was definitely the shoot first ask questions later type.

Eddy: It was the best.

Melanie: We did it.

Eddy: We did. Yay. Well, I think we might start to wind it up there, but is there anything, anything you wanted to talk about? Anything you wanted to tell the listeners?

Melanie: Well, I really like to do some tattoos soon. Not heaps because I think going straight back into the deep end is going to give me a panic attack. So I don't know slowly, slowly do some tattoos soon. Um, I would just like to say that I'm really thankful for, uh, everyone who gets tattooed by me or supports me in any way. And they've really gotten me through the last couple of weeks, months, uh, during this. Cause I still, I'm still getting emails from people and I'm still getting people asking for commissions and I've seen, everyone else is kind of in the same boat. You know, I've seen a lot of support for artists, which is amazing.

Eddy: It is.

Melanie: Our Government basically it doesn't think we exist so it's nice that our clients do, and that there is a beautiful community of people out there who've been supporting those who like a lot of, a lot of people like me and they haven't been eligible for payments. Um, Up until quite recently. And, and, and so without, honestly, without the support of my customers, I wouldn't have been able to survive for the last few weeks, pay my bills. So it's been amazing. So I just want to say thank you everyone. I don't really have anything to push, I've been too lazy to create anything new.

Eddy: It's not lazy, you're at the 10 year mark. You need the time down.

Melanie: I know, I'm an old bitch now, everything hurts.

Eddy: Oh, I know the feeling.

Melanie: I'm actually quite, Clare made a, Clare made a point to me the other day. She's like, Oh, she's a bit worried about everyone's hands. When we get back into it, that we're going to get sore quite quickly. So she's reminded me to stretch. So maybe I'll pass that on and remind everyone to stretch.

Eddy: Get some stretches happening.

Melanie: Get down on your hands and just look after yourself. Because when we get back into it, it's going to be a bit of a rude awakening I think so.

Eddy: It is.

Melanie: Yeah. So everyone take care of themselves.

Eddy: Yeah, absolutely. Well, for all our listeners, you'll be able to watch the footage of this chat on YouTube and you'll be able to, well, you are probably already listening to it on Spotify or Apple. Um, you can follow us on Instagram and Not Just A Girl underscore Tattoo for regular updates, um, and check out our blog for more information, I'll be posting all of Mel's info in the show notes. So make sure you give her a follow and lots of love. Um, thank you so much, Mel, for chatting to me today, it's been so good. I've missed you.

Melanie: I've missed you too. I can't wait till we can all hang out again, hug people. I want to go to the pub. I miss the pub.

Eddy: Yeah. Have a beer and a hug.

Melanie: Well say hi to everyone up there for me and give them hugs and stuff.

Eddy: I will, and same, have a wonderful day.

Melanie: Bye Ed.