You can listen to the sixth episode with Onnie O'Leary here. Or you can find this interview on YouTube with English subtitles/closed captions here, there is no footage for this episode so you'll find a slideshow of Onnie's work instead.
NOT JUST A GIRL: Tattoo Podcast
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Season 1, Episode 6: Sex and Sneaky Feminism
Eddy: Hello friends. Welcome to Not Just A Girl, your favorite feminist tattoo podcast. I'm Eddy and I'm back to share with you the experiences and wisdom of tattoo artists I admire. On the sixth episode, we will be chatting about visual communication, pornographic tattoos, and body positivity.
Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are the traditional custodians of this land that was stolen and never ceded. I am honored and grateful to be on the ancestral land of the Awabakal people. And I pay my respects to the Elders past and present. And extend my recognition to their descendants.
I'm super excited this morning to be joined by the fabulous Onnie O'Leary, Onnie works at TLD tattoo in Sydney and their bright and graphic designs inspired by erotic comics are instantly recognizable the world over. I'm actually very lucky to have not one but two tattoos by Onnie and they are definitely some of my favorites in my collection. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat to me today. I've been really looking forward to hearing your stories and about what you've been up to.
Onnie: Oh, thank you. Um, that makes me, makes me feel really bad now. Cause I don't have any tattoos from you yet, even though we've worked together so many times and hung out at conventions and stuff. I'm really sorry, I saw Greg's tattoo. That came up the other day. That was, I think four years ago now.
Eddy: Was it really?
Onnie: It must be. Yeah. Cause that was, he was here for my 30th birthday and I just turned 34. So
Eddy: Oh my god. For our listeners, Greg is taco monster on Instagram and he's so amazing. And you need to check him out.
Onnie: He's really great. Um, he might be a really good person to speak to because he has experience in both tattooing, but also in the medical side of
Eddy: [00:02:17] Yes.
Onnie: Um, what's happening. So he's right in the middle of that at the moment.
Eddy: That's perfect.
Onnie: Yeah. And he's, he's a great person to speak to generally, I'm lucky to have quite a few tattoos from him too. Um, But yeah, actually, so sadly I guess, because Greg has been so busy during this whole pandemic, um, I haven't been speaking to him as much as I would normally. And, um, I guess I've been really lucky to be talking to a whole bunch of artists, mainly in the US some of my friends are over in Europe, so I've been hearing from them a lot. And, uh, but especially sort of in the US and Canada, Um, and speaking to different people from around the country, sort of other tattooers.
Eddy: That must be really helping you get through this whole lockdown situation.
Onnie: Yeah, it is. It is. It's really nice to, um, I guess be able to communicate with people who are in the same situation, even so far away.
And it's definitely unique in that um, it's so universal. I mean, it's people everywhere in the same situation, whether you're in Australia or in the US or anywhere, we're all just kind of staying inside and working on our own things and all, not tattooing at the same time, and as much as I do miss tattooing. And I'm really, really looking forward to getting back to the shop and seeing the guys again, um, I'm also so relieved to actually have a break and not struggle through the FOMO because everyone else is on a break too. And that does, I guess, that like still brings its own set of sort of comparisons and anxieties because everyone sort of seems like has picked up a project for the quarantine period. And so everyone's doing their own amazing things at home. Even if they're not tattooing, you can never really fully get away from it. I think
Eddy: No, creatives are a whole different breed of people and I don't think we ever really stop. Like, it could be something as simple as doodling on a piece of scrap paper or doing a full blown, um, I dunno, art show or whatever, but yeah, there's always something.
Onnie: Starting a whole new podcast.
Eddy: That was, that was silly.
Onnie: I don't know. I don't think it was silly at all. I think um ambitious, certainly, uh, to try your hand at something totally new, but this is such a good time to do it. And I think when you're really driven by wanting to produce something in response to what's happening. There's a real immediacy to, to it that helps you like learn new skills really quickly. Cause you're like, Okay. I just have to get this thing out there and get it done.
Eddy: That's it. I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. I'm learning on the job, but it's awesome. And the bonus is I get to talk to so many amazing people like you
Onnie: Right? Well, it's just, I guess, in a sense of just sort of a vehicle in that way for you to be able to have these kinds of conversations uh, with people and I've been, I've been thinking a lot in lockdown about the purpose of art in my life and what I don't want to get to morbid, but I'm in like, what do I want out of life? Like, what do I want at the end of this, where's my career going to go after here what's going to happen. And I think that's also a product of speaking to a lot of tattoos who are at different stages of their career, um, and who were sort of opening up their tattooing practice to sort of other art avenues
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: As well.
Eddy: Well, it's a smart thing to do moving forward.
Onnie: Yeah. Yeah, it is. Um, and especially when you sort of realize that, uh, it is possible for tattooing to essentially go down overnight.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: Um, and of course, you know, it's never going to stop completely, but suddenly this sort of very regular and reliable stream of income, uh, has been cut off and yeah. As an artist, you can't I don't think you can stop practicing art. Everything that you do is art. Whether it's making a sandwich or a painting or doing your laundry
Eddy: Taking a selfie
Onnie: Taking a selfie yes. It's all about, um, the way that you do things and the attention and care that you've put into doing them. Yeah. So thats, uh, I I've been trying to, uh, try and really focus on that.
Eddy: Yeah. I think it's like really natural for an artist as well to consider what their work means as as their message for what they leave behind in their life. Like, you know, a lot of people don't get the opportunity to actually make an imprint on the world the way that artists do. Like we have the opportunity to create a visual language. If visual arts is our thing and then communicate our ideas and beliefs to the world. And I know that that's important to you.
Onnie: Yeah, very much so. And I was saying that the older and older, I get the harder and harder ease to try and like, I guess, disguise, um, my own sort of personal beliefs and what what I do want to project, it's almost like impossible to try and sever that for some sort of alternative purpose. Um, so I definitely, I mean, the more that I practice, the more sort of, uh, I guess specialization I'd like to have in my work in terms of being able to sort of control the um, the content of what I'm doing and being able to sort of dictate a lot of the content of the tattoos. Um, I think just because these are going to be the projects, these are going to be the only projects I feel like I'll be able to work on really honestly and passionately.
Eddy: Yeah, absolutely.
Onnie: And exactly what that looks like at this point. I'm not sure I'm, uh, I'm one of those tattooers who spent a really long time at art school. And I, there's a, there's a sense there that you sort of have to come up with a concept initially, and then you mold the work to facilitate that concept. And that's something that I've found really difficult. And I really struggled with for a long time, because often I feel like once the concept is formed, the art is kind of superfluous anyway.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: So I've been trying to, I guess, sort of let emotion or just interest I think when I feel passionately interested in something to let that guide the work in a way, I want it to be a lot more fun then trying to wrangle that visual language into a poem. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that can be sort of easily and clearly read by anyone as much as I want people to be able to read and understand my work. Umm. I kind of have to step back and have a little bit less control over exactly what it says and how it says just to let it come out.
Eddy: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I I've. I found like I didn't approach tattooing with like, an idea of what I wanted to do. I just kind of like learnt the techniques. And then from there was like, who am I? Where do I go from here? What do I like? And then it's just been this like ongoing journey of like discovering what I like and then learning to apply apply that to my tattoo. It's so interesting how we all have such a different journey of finding our way to authenticity in our work and to finding our own like visual language that feels comfortable.
Onnie: Yeah. And it's often such a surprise. That's been one of the things that's been really beneficial to having all of these discussions with different artists is often they will see things in your work that are there, that you have no idea. Um, And one of, one of my friends said to me, he's like, Oh Onnie, it's all about control. It's just all about control with you. I was like, Oh my God, I feel like this is maybe the linchpin of like my whole practice is this sense of control. Um, in terms of, uh, power exchanges. I mean, all of the kind of bondage girls that I do that sort of very literal. But I think even at the time, a lot of, uh, a lot of the time they were metaphors, I guess, for things that I was struggling with in my life, but there's still a very strong sense of trying to explore control and retain it, even in my own role as an artist, even in the greatest sense of being a tattooer where you sort of welcome someone into your studio and you have this like enclosed environment where you have a certain role to play, they give up a certain amount of control to you. There's a huge amount of trust there because you're going to physically hurt people. And. Um, I'm kind of like, Oh my God, this, maybe this is just what attracted me to tattooing in the first place.
Eddy:] Yeah.
Onnie: So I'm really, I'm really learning a lot, not just about, um, my art, but I think that about me as well.
Eddy: Yeah. Thats one of the things that that I find. So, um, enticing about your work, that the characters you depict have power. They have so much power, especially these women. I see so many erotic art subjects kind of, uh, giving up their power. Like they look sad or they look hurt, but yours are like I'm loving this. It's so good. And you know, you just, you just get this real sense of strength in them and you know, so, you know, you can tell that that's what, where you're coming from and that's what you're searching for.
Onnie: Good. I'm really, I'm really glad that, um, you, you said that that's a hundred percent how I want the work to be read. And its been a long process of, um, I'm really glad that you were talking about visual languages because that's what it is. There's certain things that you can do within your art or how you depict someone or how you draw something, whether it's the angles that your, um, the audience is looking from. And that's something I really consider the colors that you use. Uh, the, the techniques, the way that you paint or draw something, they all contribute to how the audience reads an artwork. And, uh, it's often through, it's been through some really challenging conversations in the past, um, that I've come to terms with those, because I think as much as I want to make artwork of like sexy, big booby girls, there's already so much of that.
And what, what am I saying that's different? Or like, why, why do I want to make this kind of work? You know, when I'm not seeing it in the world, what is it that, what is it that I'm not seeing in other drawings of sexy, big booby girls? And what can I contribute to that conversation? How am I going to change things? Um, And actually one of my, um, someone on Instagram, I put up a questionnaire this morning, asking people what they wanted to hear me talk about. And one of the questions was about my influences. So one of the biggest influences that I had in my work is Heavy Metal magazine. And
Eddy: I can tell when I see that
Onnie: I'll send you some photos of like my favorite covers and stuff so you can get it. Um, when, when I was about 17, I was drawing, it was the first time I'd ever, um, sort of drawn a porno comic. So as my friend, who was the writer, gave me a couple of magazines, give me a copy of hustler and, uh, like four copies of heavy metal. And I kind of flipped through hustler and was like, yup, cool, whatever sort of vagina. And when I got to heavy metal, I was so entranced. This was the first time I'd seen women of like vastly different body shapes, body types, skin colors, some of them were aliens. And this is definitely something that I'm trying to bring into. Um, the comics that I'm working on with Tom at the moment, but that was such an eyeopening thing for me. And really, I sort of decided there. And then when I was 17, I was like, I want to make sexy drawings of women that make them feel good about their own bodies. It was the first time that I'd sort of seen this kind of exuberant sexuality, uh, these different body types and that kind of right I guess, to enjoy sex that if someone makes a picture of it and they're like, this is what I think is sexy and you look at it and go, that's like me I could be sexy too.
Eddy: Yeah, absolutely. The diversity and the sex positivity in your work is what makes it stand out above everyone else doing erotic tattooing in my opinion, like it's just, when I look at, you know, the girls that have a little, they have a little pot belly, or they'll have a hip dip, that one boobs a bit saggier than the other. And it's like, I see that in the mirror and that's so sexy that image you've done and yeah, I can relate.
Onnie: Totally. And it's, you know, everyone's worthy of like praise and admiration and like lust and that's it. And especially growing up, I felt like I only saw a really narrow um, sort of ideal for what could be sexually attractive.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: So I'm definitely pleased to see that, like, especially in tattooing, I feel like, um, erotic tattoos have really taken off. Um, yeah, since I started, there were two tattoos that I knew of when I started one was Dusty Neal who works at, uh, Black Anvil in, uh, Fort Wayne in the US and the other is Herman Canela, who is from Buenos Aires. And I'll send you some of their work as well, and I've never been tattooed by Dusty. It's one of my great regrets so far, I'd love to go and meet him and get tattooed by him because he was so kind of generous with his time and his knowledge and, uh, even just his attention. I think he started following me when I was an apprentice, and I shat myself. I was so excited, this is amazing. I'm like heres a guy who's doing bondage tattoos, like not just a little bit cute and sexy pinups, which is sort of where I initially saw my work sort of slotting in.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: Tattooing I'm like these were full on erotic tattoos. And I was like, well, if that guy can do it, so can I.
Eddy: Its so good. And there's definitely such an important place for that in tattooing. Cause I mean, I'm, I'm guilty as well of being another one of those tattooers who does the pinup girl that's just like that prescribed version of normal. That's like skinny, white, Caucasian looking features, just like just so boring and lacking diversity. And it's just something you do without even thinking about it. Like, it's just like, that's, what's done. That's how it's always done. That's how you do it. But you've challenged that.
Onnie: Well. Yeah. And that tattooing tattooing is so much about iconography. Um, you're representing vast concepts for people in, by necessity, very simple imagery. You know, if you, you know, a tattoo of a pinup girl, it doesn't represent, this is the girl that the tattoo is off. That's a tattoo of love or longing or lust or desire or femininity or appreciation. And if you get a tattoo of a ship, you know, that means travel and journeys and. Um, so all of these concepts get distilled into very, very, very simple imagery. And, um, I mean, even with the work that you do, which no one would ever describe as like simple, even if you think about the concepts that you're doing, you know, uh, it's, it's sort of birds and flowers and these for the person who's getting them I imagine that the meaning is much more complex than I like birds and flowers.
Eddy: Yeah, absolutely.
Onnie: So actually doing. Doing the comic book. I should introduce the comic book a little bit more, but doing this comic book has been amazing because suddenly where I had to try and condense all of this stuff about women's power and sexual pleasure and enjoyment and diversity. Uh, now I have actual space for a narrative.
Eddy: Amazing.
Onnie: And that's so, uh, so daunting and so freeing, because it's really the opposite of what, of what I've been doing as a tattooist for years and years.
Eddy: Well.
Onnie: So that's, that's been really positive.
Eddy: Talking about the comic. How did it get started? And please tell the listeners all about that because it's so amazing.
Onnie: Okay. So, so the comic, we started a little company called One Handed Comix and that's me and Ugly Tom who's a, uh, an amazing tattooer, uh, over in Charlotte, in North Carolina. And we started chatting. Sam Rulz showed me his work, I think about two years ago now and was like, You'd love this guy's work. He's really great. He free hands, literally every tattoo, every tattoo, and as well as doing his own like massive projects, uh, tattoo projects that he's working on body suits and things like that. He's also a walk in tattooer occasionally. So if you want like a freehanded Polynesian half sleeve. Or, you know, some like drama masks doesn't matter. He will just draw that straight on you and then tattoo it.
Eddy: The confidence
Onnie: He's obviously like a very, very hardworking and inspiring, uh, tattooer, and so I've been following him for a while and we would chat here and there I'm pretty chatty online. Um, and especially when I really admire someone's work, so we sort of chatted a little bit back and forth. He said, he was like, Oh, this dude's pretty friendly. And then I heard he was on another podcast and I heard him speaking it was about an exhibition that he was having that was supposed to happen this month, um, that is ofcourse not going on at the moment. So we started talking about the themes that he brought up in the podcast, which were about religion and spirituality. And I had like a ton of stuff to say about all of this and sent him a message and then was like, hang on this isn't enough just started leaving him huge voice messages about it. And he wrote back and I guess, I think this was maybe a week or two before we went into lockdown here in New South Wales. And so it'd be about two and a half months ago, I think is the end of March two and a half months now. So, uh, no a month.
Eddy: I can't believe
Onnie: I'm so confused
Eddy: Yeah I don't know. Time, wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
Onnie: It's a loose concept at this point, a while ago. It feels simultaneously very quick and a million years ago. Uh, and so we were chatting away about that. He had a bunch of stuff to say in response to it, and then I had more opinions about it. He had more opinions about that and we were chatting away. And we were like, Hey, maybe we should just do a split sheet you know, we'll do like a little bit of, um, flash each and see how that goes. And then that very quickly turned into, we should make a comic together. And it should be a porno comic.
Eddy: Perfect.
Onnie: Perfect, and that was it. Like, and now, um, you, but tattooing was kind of tough. I mean, it's such a great job, but it can be kind of tough, man that comic book. So it's been it's yeah I guess it's been about a month and a half or nearly two months. We are almost ready to send this 16 page comic book to the printer. Almost.
Eddy: There's a lot of work in that.
Onnie: There's a huge amount of work. Um, but it's been such a joy to work so collaboratively with someone because it really is a truly collaborative effort where we sort of workshop the story together. Then we kind of talk about a layout. We'll do a rough, a very rough layout where we, you know, with stick figures, this panel should be from this angle and this panel should be from that angle. And the big explosion should happen on the bottom half of this page. And we'll sort of show each other ideas. Talk about them, talk about what we like. What we don't like then, uh, he, Tom has been doing the inks. And so I mentioned that he freehands, everything. Um, he's almost totally analog. So all of his contribution to the comic book is physically inking the sheets and then scanning them and then sending them to me.
Eddy: Wow.
Onnie: And then I work digitally over the top of them. Um, so we sort of go back and forth. So I will take his large layout. Digitally pencil um, all of the girls and the parts of the page that I'm drawing, send that back to him. He grids it up by hand to transfer all of my pencils onto the final page. All of his parts scans, those sends them to me. I then redrop my pencils in there, ink those over the top. And then I do a rough and then we talk about the colors and then I do the final version.
Eddy: Wow. That's amazing though, to be able to collaborate, like on such an equal level with another artist, I feel like the communication involved in that would be really difficult, but it sounds like it's working.
Onnie: It is yeah, it is working and I definitely don't think that it would be possible with just anyone. Um, I really, uh, I think we've definitely grown to be really close friends over the process and part of that's because there have been some really difficult discussions and I don't think I realized at the beginning how, um, Uh, I guess like how important these kind of discussions would be in terms of dictating the content of the comic and how much it's forced me to take a lot of ideas that I have in my own work about representing women and sex and forced me to examine them, pull them apart, and then be able to explain them back to someone.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: And especially, uh, someone who, you know, who lives on the other side of the world, who's a different gender to me, has very different like, uh, romantic experiences. Um, and it's been, it's been really, really great to, uh, I guess, speak so openly and honestly, about what started off as like a kind of fun sexy art project, but it's actually pooled up and forced me to really analyze my own beliefs and motivations about this kind of stuff.
Eddy: That's soo amazing.
Onnie: Yeah.
Eddy: That's what arts for.
Onnie: Exactly. Exactly. I think without that sort of mirror into, um, into the world, sometimes you just don't recognize yourself or your own ideas. So.
Eddy: And the fact that you've had to explore what you believe and why you believe that, and then figure out how to express that that expression is going to be so much more authentic and so much clearer and have such a bigger impact on your audience.
Onnie: I hope so. And as much as I don't think that I would label this a feminist comic. Um, it's not that, not that it's not feminist, it's unashamedly feminist just by virtue of what it is, but I also just want to say that there's like a lot of really messy sex in there. And, um, it's. Deeply pornographic. Uh, the comics are called One Handed Comix because the idea is that you have to, you can read them one handed. I'm pretty sure everyone's been masturbating a lot in captivity. And so the whole idea of this comic kind of came out of like trying to meet a need for people.
Eddy: Yes, adult toy companies are doing so well right now.
Onnie: I'll bet they are. If anyone wants to send me a vibrator, I'll happily accept them, um, at the shop, just look up the TLD shop address, and then send through whatever you've got.
Eddy: Onnie can sponno those, uh, friggin sex toys.
Onnie: Yeah. I'll I'll, I'll get you to put the address up at the end so that peple know where to send them.
Eddy: Get you some of those crazy alien ones to go with those alien babes you draw.
Onnie: Oh my God. The alien egg ones. I want that. It's so intensely weird. I really love that. I really don't mean weird in the negative sense. Um, But like, I have a deep interest in those like alien egg. Like I think it's called, like, Ovipositor I may be wrong, I read that, that vice article, like five times and every time I'm like, Oh my God.
Eddy: Every time I see a picture it takes me a moment to like, Oh, Oh yes. That's what it is, huh.
Onnie: Just imagine like sort of wobbling around the house, like just laying alien eggs for my flatmate to find.
Eddy: Amazing. And that's what I'm excited about with your, with your comic, the fact that it's, it's going to be so much more interesting and kink friendly and women friendly and trans friendly and like all of these like different people who aren't represented in mainstream pornography. Like they get to have a place now.
Onnie: Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's really important. I mean, like I said, like the first issue is only 12 pages long, so, um, and we've got a couple of extra, we've got like one little extra story and a couple of like fun sort of cute fake ads that we made to go in it. So, um, I don't, I don't want to run the risk of disappointing people by talking about like the incredible diversity in it. When the initial story that we've got is pretty, uh, I mean, it has a limited number of characters. So that also means that there's kind of a limited number of, um, things that we can touch on really.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: But that is very much the plan in terms of making more. And we've sort of god, I don't want to jinx it, but like we've we talked about making more of them and that's, that's something that we'd both really like to do. And we're going to try and get as much done while we're in isolation. And then afterwards, I think we're gonna try and work out a way to balance tattooing and making comics because it's something we both really want to continue. Um, But I mean, having it be kind of set in space and giving, giving us that gives us the option of like non human aliens, who can be any gender, any race, um, they can exist in sort of any sort of form that you as the author illustrator want them to take. And I really liked that because I love the idea of being able to present something that might seem different and unusual. Uh, here on earth, but in this comic you can have, um, well, this is just the like polyamory planet and everyone lives like this and it's super normal and everyone's really happy.
And we talked a little bit about the Netflix show Hollywood I think that was very, very much a fantasy rewriting of history. And there's something sort of joyful and positive about that where you can say, look, this is the, this is the future that we, or the past that the sort of dimension that we want to imagine things have happed in. And then from that you can kind of go, well, maybe this is possible.
Eddy: Yeah. That's, what's so good about SciFi it gives you the space of endless possibilities and to just imagine this really optimistic, wonderful world that you can enjoy.
Onnie: Yeah. Yeah. And especially in terms of, um, sort of different forms of activism. I do want to talk about that as well, because I don't necessarily think that the solution to achieving equality is just to kind of whitewash everything and say, well, let's just imagine if everything was wonderful right now. Um, and, but that, that is part of it. And at this point in time, uh, like I was saying, that's, I'm really following my interests and, and this is something that I really want to make, I want to provide kind of a bit of escapism for people, um, and yeah. Make people hopeful and, and feel better about the situation that we're all in at the moment.
Eddy: I'm sure people are going to absolutely love it.
Onnie: I really, I really hope so. I really, really hope so. Um, Yeah. I hope people like it as much as I am enjoying drawing it and
Eddy: I love that you're enjoying drawing it. That makes it even better.
Onnie: It's so much fun. I'm going to confess something here. Uh, a lot of people have been asking if drawing a porno comic makes you horny. And look, the company line on this sorry Tom the company line on this is that actually, you know? Sure. Maybe, but we're really focusing on things aside from just the content, like the composition and all of this. So look, it's not like some kind of total fuckfest, but also honestly it does make you kind of horny.
Eddy: No harm in that.
Onnie: It's really hard not to draw porn all day and think about exactly what it is that would turn someone on about a particular scene without getting a little bit turned on. I only hope that that is passed onto the reader of this and that everyone gets at least a little bit turned on from reading it.
Eddy: I think so. I think with your tattoos and your art, like you can definitely see the joy you've had in creating it and that that's a hundred percent passed on to the viewer and that's why people get your tattoos. So that's going to happen with the comic too.
Onnie: Um, I also feel like the comics really pushed my artwork dramatically. I've been forced to go back and study a lot of anatomy. Um, a lot of movement, uh, talking about communicating a narrative, just in images. And I'm going back to a lot of my roots and like rereading a lot of my old heavy metal magazines to get inspiration and to help decide, you know, how we want the comic to look and to feel and what we need to do to do that.
So I'm so excited to get back to tattooing and just feel like I've leveled up all of these skills. Um, You know, even, even more in this time. So I'm, I'm keen to like, yeah. Apply that to tattooing again and pushing, or I guess having an implied narrative in my work is really important because I want part of what excites that audience so much is to imagine who these characters are, what they're doing, what's happening, what they're about to encounter. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, for the comic there's, I mean, there's a direct narrative there, but you also don't show every single thing in a story. And so you have to, the viewer has to get from one panel to the next and understand what's happening. And that is really something that I want to push with tattooing. I'd really like to move beyond the simplistic iconography of what tattoos are, even though I love that so much about tattoos. I think what I want from my work is to be able to communicate more with an image.
Eddy: Yeah. I can see that happening because your work is so dynamic. There is a lot of like room for storytelling in that.
Onnie: Cool. I'm so glad. I mean, your boxer girl, like.
Eddy: I love her
Onnie: She's a good example
Eddy: Onnie did, for our listeners Onnie did this amazing, like strong, muscular, angry boxer woman on me with like skin tears around it. It's so good.
Onnie: She's like fighting out of, out of your leg. Um, but you know, she's really like, she's kind of like a little bit like rough. It's obviously not the, uh, not the beginning of the fight, but it's not the end either. So I want you to think about like, Who is she? Why is she fighting so hard? Is she gonna win? Maybe, maybe not.
Eddy: Damn right she's gonna win. It might get a bit, a bit like difficult there towards the end, but she'll come out triumphant. I can guarantee.
Onnie: Spit out the tooth
Eddy: Spit the blood on the canvas.
Onnie: And that's I mean, that's kind of the artwork that grabs me the most is when I continue to like turn it over in my head after I've seen it and try and try and pull it apart and try and figure out what's what's happening. So
Eddy: I think, Oh, what about other guests? Brody, who I spoke to the other day. You did a lovely tattoo on them of a special moment.
Onnie: Yeah. Um, Oh, that was, that was so nice. It was really lovely to have Brody in the shop and, um, uh, yeah. Get to know them and get to do a really fun tattoo. And I think does Brody work with Sera Helen?
Eddy: Yes.
Onnie: Yeah, at Crucible. Yeah. Uh, she's also amazing I'm wearing her today.
Eddy: I noticed that. Yeah, Sera's incredible.
Onnie: The girl with all the tribal tattoos, riding the dragon tat gun. It's amazing.
Eddy: So much talent in that studio and in the one you work in as well.
Onnie: Oh, yeah, the boys are fantastic. It's really, it's been really, really good. And it's nice to work in a studio where the, I guess the art style is say same, same, but different. Um, I always like to think that my work is pretty firmly rooted in traditional tattooing in that I'm trying to make, uh, you know, bright, solid colors, clean black lines. Um, I want them to age well. But I'm just putting them together in a slightly different way than Trad Trad.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: But I've learned so much in the last couple of years that I've, I've worked there. They're all really amazing tattooers.
Eddy: And they all have that same kind of thing. The really bright, bold colors, crisp black lines it's just so powerful as a tattoo and it will age so well, that kind of work.
Onnie: Well, that's it. Yeah, I'm really proud. I think I've gotten tattooed by everyone at the shop now, at least, at least once. And they all look amazing. Um, and yeah, it's really nice. They get a lot of, a lot of compliments on, um, on those sets that the guys did. Yeah, I do miss them.
Eddy: It's so hard being away from the colleagues. Cause I think we spend more time with them than we do in our own homes. And then suddenly you're not seeing them every day and it's just like, Oh, I wonder, I wonder what they're doing right now.
Onnie: Do they still think of me?
Eddy: We have a little group chat where it's like, there's a lot of memes and a lot of little, I miss you gifs and just like love hearts and rainbows to each other.
Onnie: I have to say at the beginning of, uh, isolation, the memes were fire.
Eddy: Oh my God
Onnie: People, there were so many good ones. Things have seriously declined since then, my favorite meme group on Facebook have descended into jorts and Shrek memes, and they have a boomer Thursday now and like I could take just boomer Thursday was just, people would just post terrible boomer memes, you know, where it's like, the punchline is always like I hate my wife. And I can try to take that. Like I kind of, I enjoy the irony of it that you can't have like three ironic meme days out of a week when we're all home all the time. I'm like you can make a jorts thread, you can make a Shrek thread. I don't want to see that all, like I intensely disliked jorts now.
Eddy: I have to admit I'm not yet as developed in my understanding and taste of memes. I mostly just stick to the Elle Woods Legally Blondes memes.
Onnie: Well, that's fine. You've got Brooke and Siarn there and they're on fire.
Eddy: Brooke is the meme queen.
Onnie: Yes, Yes. Oh my God.
Eddy: Um for our listeners Brooke is a one of the amazing artists I work with and I don't think anyone has ever been better at sharing memes than, than Brooke, or even in her drunken state, creating them.
Onnie: Does she have her own meme page yet?
Eddy: Not yet, but I have been begging her to do a meme page and a YouTube channel. You should see some of the videos she's left on my phone when we've partied.
Onnie: I know.
Eddy: I'll send them to you.
Onnie: I would follow the YouTube channel Brooke at the Hamo
Eddy: Right.
Onnie: We'll just call it The smoking section,
Eddy: Havin a fuckin duzza at the Hamo.
Onnie: I know next time, the next time I come up, I really want to come and party with you guys. And you should come out too, um, but yeah mainly
Eddy: We, last time we worked out, we can do it at my house when Amy was here. We just like had a fashion show and went through my
Onnie: I saw the fashion show
Eddy: My costume box and it was lit.
Onnie: Oh man. Yeah. That'd be great to have a fashion show again. I mean, I've been buying a ton of clothes from like my tattooer mates and that's, that's been awesome. Um, but mainly I just live in my like yoga pants these days.
Eddy: I can't wait till we're all back at New Zealand, um, Tattoo and Art Convention, and your booth, where you and Sam are always on fire and bring the fashion. I remember your Christmas theme booth last year. Sam's always just glitter and rainbows.
Onnie: I just want to say for anyone out there that is thinking about doing a Christmas theme booth, don't do it. People don't like it.
Eddy: I loved it
Onnie: I was so excited to do this Christmas booth. I thought people were going to be really into it. I'm like who doesn't love Christmas. It's the happiest time of the year. People don't like Christmas. They don't want Christmas tattoos not an convention anyway. Um, the only way that I could get people into it was to like tie my shirt up.
Eddy: It became smutty Christmas,
Onnie:] It was smutty Christmas. I mean, it was already smutty Christmas, All the Christmas designs with smutty Christmas designs, but
Eddy: I wear the hell out of your smarty Christmas shirt. That's like, it's like a weekly, like thing that I wear that shirt as soon as it comes out of the wash it's back on again.
Onnie: Amazing. I'm so happy about that. I still have, I still have quite a few like big sizes in that, because I think the last shirt I did was black and it's like, I sold out of XLs straight away. So I got a bunch of XLs made up in this one, but are ran out of smalls first up, I think. Yeah, that was all the girls wanted a pink shirt with the bondage babe on it just sitting on top of this guy
Eddy: Was so good.
Onnie: Yeah. But I am, I am really, really looking forward to that. I hope that's going ahead in November. Um, but if not, you know, the years just go faster and faster now. So yeah.
Eddy: Yeah they do, I can't believe it's May already we'll be back to tattooing in no time. I'm sure.
Onnie: I thought you were going to say November.
Eddy: Please no. How, like, how do you reckon this current situation is going to affect tattooing? Like, or how we experience art even?
Onnie: Um, I I'm really hoping that it reminds people just how important art is in these times, um, in whatever capacity, whether you're talking about a tattooing or theater, film, or movies, I've been listening to so much music, uh, and really. I guess really kind of examining all of this, this stuff that I'm looking at, whether it's the books I'm reading or the TV shows that I'm not watching while I draw, or the artwork that I'm making, um, and how that has the capacity to make you feel less alone and less isolated in your, in your circumstances. Um, so I hope that that gives people a sense of like greater importance or that there's greater importance placed on, um, on the arts at the same time I think things are going to be really different. I mean, here in Australia, we, uh, I think the majority of tattooers are eligible for some form of welfare welfare generally. Um, Job Keeper.
Eddy: Yeah. If they're residents. Yeah.
Onnie: If they're residents, um, but uh, over in the US that's not the case, they don't have the same. They don't have any welfare for tattooers.
Eddy: It's so ridiculous.
Onnie: It's ridiculous. Well, because it's also illegal for them to open up. And so people are fighting for the right to reopen their studios, um, which is dangerous still dangerous.
Eddy: Yeah. It's difficult because you
Onnie: Cause I'm a big expert.
Eddy: Yeah. Well, that's it like what, none of us are really experts, but like, you know, from what we're told, it's it's dangerous. But then at the same time, of course, they're going to fight. They're terrified. They're not going to pay their rent or eat or look after their families. It must be so scary. And artists just, I mean, imagine being an isolation without art. We just couldn't do it.
Onnie: Well that's just, that's just solitary confinement.
Eddy: Exactly. Like we need to respect artists and look after them.
Onnie: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, expecting, I mean, cutting off people's livelihood, but expecting them to still maintain all of their outgoings, um, is ridiculous and impossible. So yeah. Um, I'm very, I'm very worried for my friends over there. Um, I don't, uh, I don't really have a clear idea yet of what that's going to mean for tattooing, whether that means you have, uh, artists moving out of tattooing into a more secure job. Um, I think the situation would be similar to Australia where there's not even if you move out of the job that you've got now, which job are you going to move into?
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: So I guess I'm sort of withholding, um, my opinion until I know more or I can actually make any kind of informed guess.
Eddy: Yeah, it could go back to the way it was, you know, in the early days in Western tattooing where, you know, it was a tattoo shop and a barber shop and, you know, multiple other kind of trades all in one little, little house.
Onnie: Well, that's it. I don't know if you've been to Sleeve Masters here in Sydney.
Eddy: No I haven't.
Onnie: It's still, it's the same venue that it's been, and it's this tiny, tiny, narrow shop. And you come in and there's a counter. And then there's the tattoo studio. And that the artists chair, and then there's like a little room behind that I think with like a sink, but the toilet's not even in the shop.
Eddy: Wow.
Onnie: Um, so, you know, it's very, very old school and, uh, and really, really tiny. And I do kind of love that atmosphere. Um, it's very different to sort of the big, calm, open spaces of a lot of studios nowadays, but yeah. Uh, it's, it's definitely a fun spot to get tattooed in. So I wouldn't be mad if we had more kind of like just figure it out as you go along tattoo shops, you know as long as everyone's clean, then it's fine.
Eddy: Yeah. There's a space like I think, you know, there's a risk that we'll lose walk-in shops, but I think if people are creative, we can have like lots of different ways of going about tattooing that's still safe. And I guess like, Legal so that we can operate without getting fined, but you know, like we can get creative with it.
Onnie: There's like so much money lying around now
Eddy: Yeah. Anyway, um, I want to go back to something you mentioned earlier about. Um, the discussions you have regarding feminism or, you know, different opinions and theories and how to mitigate them. Cause I know that that's something that you talk about a fair bit and that we were talking about before this interview, um, like what, what, what is, what is your approach?
Onnie: Um, I guess in in these kinds of discussions. I think it's really important to God is there's a couple of things. Um, these are often really hard discussions to have, and I like to choose my words really carefully. Um, you know, because it's, I think it's easy for meaning to be misconstrued. So, Ummm. I think that listening is of course really important. I think that the majority of times, if you're discussing, I think that the pros for feminism and the cons for feminism, when you have two different people coming at it from opposing sides, I think often they want the same solution. But have very different ideas about either what feminism is or means um, and don't fully understand it. And I think the opposite can also happen, um, where you can assume someone's intentions or, and, uh, and both it's very easy, I guess, to misconstrue what the other person's saying, or to really stick to your assumptions about what they're saying. And the most successful discussions I've had have, I guess also taught me something about, about the other person, about the way that the other person thinks, um, about their sort of fears or apprehensions.
And when you can get to the root of those emotions, that's when you have an opportunity to I guess change someone's mind or actually make them receptive to hearing your experience. Yeah. Um, and again, look like, like I said earlier, this having these kinds of discussions is a lot of work. You know, it really does require effort not to let your emotions overpower you when you feel really passionate about something. And that's absolutely something that I I struggle with, and Greg will tell you, we've had some discussions about feminism where we've just been like, look, we just agreeing to disagree here. And he fucking loves, he loves to wind me up.
Eddy: But that's how we, that's how we learn to like the, the discussion back and forth. Like, you know, I wasn't always a feminist. I didn't always have the knowledge I have now, but it's through understanding that it was the fear that's like been bred into me by society of all of these changes and all these like dynamics. I don't understand. And then once you start to understand those and understand how they affect our behavior and our language and everything like that, then you can start making those changes, but you have to be able to have a conversation and be challenged but listen.
Onnie: Yes. Yeah, that's so important. And I think everyone grows up like that. You, you grow up, uh, trying to understand the status quo and how to fit into that. I mean, that's what being a person is about. And I think that. Uh, fitting in with other people is something that's really hardwired in us. Um, and so if you live in a patriarchal society, which we do, um, those are going to be seen as the ideas that are normal and acceptable and right. And it's yeah. It's like you say, until you realize that maybe your own experience or the experiences of others or the things that you see in the world, uh, don't add up. Then that's when you begin to question and challenge that, um, but people can spend a lot of their time, uh, often their whole life trying to fit in. And so when you challenge that, that, that becomes a very personal confrontation.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: Um, Just because they've invested so much in maybe suppressing these things in themselves that you're embracing and saying, Hey, we don't have to put up with that. That's not actually right. And let's do something about it.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: And you feel like you've been fighting in the wrong direction, your whole life. Like, Oh my God. I thought if I just conformed that I would be happy. And now you're saying I have to rail against conformity in order to be happy.
Eddy: Yeah. It's hard how are we? We just want to be normal, but then being normal is actually quite toxic because who does, who prescribes normal anyway, and it's just.
Onnie: That's it. And there is no normal there's no,
Eddy: No, there shouldn't be.
Onnie: I've never met a normal person in my whole life. Even the most normal people that you meet might have some giant Koi tattoo on their back that you don't know about. And tattoos are definitely not normal.
Eddy: No, no. Anyone with a tattoo is a freak.
Onnie: Absolutely. I think we can all agree on that. Especially porno tattoos.
Eddy: Yeah. If you've got a fucking like shunga tattoo then nah, you don't belong. Nope. Sorry guys.
Onnie: Actually, someone, someone did say like what one of the Instagram questions was. Um, if you've had any negative reactions to your work as, as an erotic tattooer, um, And sometimes yes, people have those kinds of reactions. My favorite thing, this comes up all the time at conventions, like some people will wander off that, look at the really filthy stuff, then I'll be like, why would anyone even get this? People get tattoos of things that they like and some people like blowjobs.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: Um, you know, there's sort of an idea of if you're going to get tattooed, there's a certain set of things or parameters that you can, you can acceptably get tattooed sometimes, you know, people say, well, it has to be really meaningful. Has to be something you would never change your mind about.
Eddy: The thing I hate when they're like, Oh, it's something that, you know, you won't be ashamed of on your wedding day. Like what. Who give a fuck. Put a fucking dick on my forearm for my wedding day please.
Onnie: Done. I'll see you after quarantine. Are you going to renew your vows with like a nice big, like forehead dick.
Eddy: Like, um, that the woman in that old tattoo book that got around about a decade ago where she's got like all of these dicks across her chest and butt, and there's like the cockroaches and everything.
Onnie: Is it the Dave Lum Yeah. The Dave Lum necklace,
Eddy: I think so.
Onnie: The dick necklace.
Eddy: Yeah.
Onnie: For anyone, for anyone wondering, uh, what I look like. Um, me and that lady are fairly physically similar. I do not have a Nicholas, a dick necklace.
Eddy: Not yet anyway.
Onnie: A dick nicklas. But I wish I did. Um, I deeply regret never getting tattooed by Dave Lum. And I've been really lucky when I'm in the States to see a bunch of his tattoos in the flesh. Sadly, never the dick necklace one day.
Eddy: One day.
Onnie: Yeah. So it's actually, it's funny that you bring that up. Cause of course I said, you know, there were so few people getting pornographic tattoos before, before me and, and sort of these other artists I mentioned, um, which is of course, uh, just proved not true at all. People have always been amazing filthy perverts who love sex.
Eddy: Oh Yeah. Absolutely.
Onnie: And if you look back through newspaper records, you can find an article from almost every decade from the 1910s until today saying how tattooing is not underground anymore. Now it's becoming mainstream and it's not just for sailors of criminals. Every 10 years they bring this article out. It just makes me laugh because of course, I guess it's always been a little bit mainstream and a little bit subversive. And when, and it's, it's such a personal art form, so you don't have the same kind of control, let's say, um, is evident in, uh, like fine art, but you have gallery owners and curators and they, they can very specifically control who they, they think should be popular and, and whose work is going to be um, expensive, um, tattooing, you know, you're always dealing with sort of one on one clients. So while there is like a very, in, in all facets of society, very strong ideas about what is normal and acceptable. Uh, you get to meet some amazing people who have fantastic ideas outside of that, about, um, you know, what they like, what they want to decorate their body with. Um, and it's been such a privilege to. Have so many great clients. Who've shared so much with me about their, you know, their sexual experiences, um, their orientations. I am constantly surprised by how normal people look and the wild ass stories that they tell me.
Eddy: That's like, that's, that's one of the best parts of it. Like the stories you hear. In this journey while you're traveling, tattooing and like the shit you see in the stuf you hear.
Onnie: It's wild. Yeah. And I'm really, that's something that I miss so much right now is traveling and I can't wait to get overseas again, really, really excited about getting to do more traveling. And
Eddy: You've always been a big traveler hey?
Onnie: Yeah. Yeah. And my, um, you know, my mum has always been a big traveler as well. And, uh, you know, she's from Canada. So she moved over to Australia and then never left. So, I mean, I haven't, I just keep coming back to Australia. Like, I don't know. Maybe I should find some other country to live in for awhile.
Eddy: You'll come back.
Onnie: Yeah. I mean, I do love it here. I probably will always come back and we are very, very fortunate here as much as I rail against the government. Um, and send them a lot of, I've been sending Scott Morrison memes every time I see a real sassy one, I just email it to him. And even though, uh, I don't think he personally is receiving them. I'm hoping that I'm like slowly converting his staff.
Eddy: Yeah. They're probably all just being like, Oh wait, he is a joke. No, my favorite ones are all the Scotty no, from Austin Powers.
Onnie: Oh, my God. I haven't seen any of those.
Eddy: Ok, I will send them to you. Yes.
Onnie: We'll put them up on the screen.
Eddy: Yeah. It's yeah, we, we have like a lot of other patriarchal colonial countries. We have absolute bullshit dick wads in charge, but you know, Maybe we can burn them down and start a new one day.
Onnie: I'm going to continue to accept the welfare money that I contributed an enormous amount of tax towards.
Eddy: Damn right.
Onnie: And yeah.
Eddy: I paid tax. I'm taking that welfare.
Onnie: Exactly. That's exactly it. It's just funny that I gave you guys recently anyway.
Eddy: And I want everyone else taking that welfare too. Even if they didn't pay tax because you deserve it cause you're a human.
Onnie: Well, exactly. That's, you know, we live in a society, right?
Eddy: We've got to abide by their silly laws. They should fucking pay us.
Onnie: Totally totally well that's, I mean, it's, you know, it's a cycle it's, um, it has to be a cycle. So yeah, I mean, I hope, I hope people are doing really well. And I just wish so deeply that, um, everyone had the same kind of luxuries that we do at the moment. Um, yeah, so, and in the meantime, hopefully a nice comic book will help people.
Eddy: Definitely.
Onnie: Even if it's just some form of escapism for a short time.
Eddy: I think that's, yeah. It's, it's those little, those little moments where we can escape that will get people through it. For sure.
Onnie: Yeah. Yeah. And it's important. It's important to have a rest from the crushing existential horror
Eddy: Stop start worrying about when you can go back to tattooing and have a wank.
Onnie: That's it. That's it.
Eddy: Well.
Onnie: Um, Yeah, I was going to say, I think I have to head off.
Eddy: That's all right. Is there anything you wanted to mention before we finish up?
Onnie: I think I've pretty much covered everything. Uh, I'll give you the TLD address and, uh, send you through a bunch of cool memes um, for you and everyone else to laugh at.
Eddy: Well I'll post, for our listeners, I'll post a bunch of pictures and links, um, for the things that we've discussed, um, in our blog. Um, I'll also put links in the show notes and, um, yeah, you'll be able to listen to the episode on Spotify and iTunes and a few other channels. Um, Yeah, make sure you subscribe follow and share and help spread the love of tattooing. Um, thank you so much Onnie for sharing your story and to all our listeners for tuning in. We really appreciate it. I hope you all have a brilliant day and remember to love the heck out of yourself.
Onnie: Yeah, awesome, all right. So nice talking to you.
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